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Post by shalbaal on Jan 19, 2010 23:16:59 GMT -5
So, being cooped up in the house for the next few weeks, I've decided I'm going to make an axe. I liked the one I used of Duke's last time I was at practice.. which seems far too long ago. So, I had a question, would half of a mini-nerf football work as a stabby tip on an axe? I've seen nerf footballs mentioned several times on the dag boards so I was wondering. It just seems to me like it would be really really easy to dap half of a nerf football onto the top of this design over the core: www.dagorhir.com/gear/content/weapon_tutorials/ryker_axe.phpWith the non-striking side already curved it just seems perfect. Any reason why this wouldn't work? Am I missing something?
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Beard
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Savage
Posts: 193
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Post by Beard on Jan 19, 2010 23:36:46 GMT -5
If you looking for something with a stabby tip then I would suggest a sword.
Its a easy weapon to make if your just starting to build and figure out how to build a stabby tip on top of that.
Once you figured that out the you can move onto something a little more difficult.
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Post by shalbaal on Jan 20, 2010 8:55:33 GMT -5
Yeah, I've already made a few swords. They passed and are pretty good, I have to repair one that got stepped on, but it bent/broke at the handle so it'll be an easy fix. I just need a slice down the non-striking side, put in a new core then dap it back up and it'll be as good as new. Honestly looking at the designs of the axe I think it'll be a lot easier and faster than making a sword. The first axe I make I'm not planning on including a stabbing tip, but I was just wondering if the mini-nerf football was an acceptable option for a stabbing tip. I see this working much easier for an axe or spear as shown in this older spear construction guide: dagorhir.com/HowTo/DagorhirSpear.html than with a sword, due to the shape of a sword compared to the round parts on the axe & spear. Pretty much I liked the feel of an axe, it felt comfortable in hand and I wanted to try it out. I see it beng better with a stabbing tip though because I'll be unable to throw some attacks due to there only being one striking edge.
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Beard
NS Mod
Savage
Posts: 193
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Post by Beard on Jan 20, 2010 14:31:53 GMT -5
I'm sure you can try it out and get it tested to see how it works out. The worst that can happen is that it does not pass and you have to rethink it. Although, Nerf foam makes great green tips for spears I have no idea how it would work out in an axe of that kind.
In my opinion an axe is used as more of an aggressive weapon and is used to hook and pull open shields. While your sword would be a better option to have a stabby tip because it would be longer.
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Post by Duke Fontayne on Jan 20, 2010 15:39:52 GMT -5
Ripping aside a shield with your axe and then stabbing the now open torso is a wonderful idea. There are some spears with hooks in the field on occasion that work on the same concept at a longer range. This would just be primarily an axe with a green point instead of a spear with a hook.
I have used parts of Nerf football foam and dollar general generic foam footballs as stabbing tips. I put them on the ends of my clubs, though I usually cut them down to something that more resembles a tuna can then a football. The green point must still pass the 2.5 inch minimum diameter rule for a stabbing weapon so you can't just cut a football in half and glue/tape it to the top of the axe.
A word of warning. If the tip gets too long, it is more likely to shear off when you graze a person or shield with it. And in the heat of battle tip hits are not uncommon as people are moving into and out of range. Though, depending on axe head shape this may be more or less of a problem. Usually an additional means of support (besides just DAP on the base) is recommended. This might be in the form of some blue foam that runs up the side of the axe and half way up the stabby tip or some tape run over the top of the stabby tip and down the sides of the axe and along the top and back of the axe head. If you do add tape, some suggest poking holes in it so that the open cell foam can still let air in and out and effectively keep its squishiness.
For one sword, I cut a football in half length wise, nipped the tips and edges and applied it as a stabby tip. I've also used couch foam cut appropriatly and placed between the 2nd and 3rd layer of the Eryndor blue sword tutorial.
Two common problems with stabby tips are the shearing off due to tip hits/grazes and poke through of the weapon core. Whatever you do, keep those in mind when you are building.
P.S. I have also thought about how much more effective my little axe would be with a stabby tip. It would be nice to just pull a shield a little bit and then slide it home for a kill (unarmored) as opposed to pulling that shield out of the way enough to get in a good hack before the opponent re-establishes his or her guard.
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Post by stubbie on Jan 20, 2010 18:51:33 GMT -5
I had the same idea shalbaal. I just never followed through with it. I lowered the axe blade down about 2", leaving some PVC sticking up. Capped it off, wrapped blue around and then caped until it was to be 2.5" wide base. Unfortunately this caused my stabby base to stick out farther on the back side than my head padding...so it looked goofy as hell.
I know some people have begun making the top tip of their axe blade a green, because it's easier to incorporate into the design and also because it would be closer to your target in the - hook with beard and pull, thrust forward to stab, maneuver.
One modification you should do...I assume you're using blue foam. To only do 1 wrap around the entire thing, put you a core width wide strip down the back side of your core, opposite what will become your blade, Then do your wrap around.
The OC is only 1 way to do it, you can also layer blue foam down the blade and achieve good results....talk to Ragnar; I guess he's done that before.
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Post by shalbaal on Jan 20, 2010 21:24:17 GMT -5
Wow great feedback. I was hoping for some tips like above. One more question, if I were looking at going blue axe + board what length would you guys recommend?
I've been reading all the drama on the Dag boards about 12" striking surfaces on blues, but from what I've read most axe heads are around 8", so I'll have to safety pad at least 4-6" with 3 layers of blue? Then another 12-14" w/ one layer of courtesy padding before the handle & pommel, so does something like 36-38" total weapon size sound good?
I kept thinking that when I'd hook/pull a shield, a lot of the time I'd just naturally be in the position to do a stab. But when I was looking into all the construction tutorials and pictures, I honestly didn't see anyone with a stabby axe (though, I did see not many used axes).
Just wanted to say I realize the sword is generally superior to the axe. I was just really impressed with Duke's axe when I was messing around with it and it just felt good. I figure I'll test it out.
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Post by stubbie on Jan 20, 2010 21:59:53 GMT -5
You should go with 2 layers on your "courtesy" padding\., not just 1.
Thing about stabby tips is that as a generalization, the Dag community has been WILDLY variable on what constitutes a "safe" stabby tip. So it runs the gambit of people who say that a standard 3 layer "Popsicle" sword tip is good enough to stab with....to people who want an absolute pillow before they'll pass it.....so they have been rather scarce. So naturally not many tutorials have been made saying how to make them; since what passes at place X won't pass at Y or Z.
There is a sort of...renaissance going on with stab-tips. So as the community comes to terms with what a minimum level of padding is for a "safe" stab tip, more tutorials should come along. Until then your sort of stuck with the good ol' Trial and Error method.
Like Beard said, worst you can do is submit it to a veteran weapons checker up there and have'em say "HELL NO!" Then they'll run through your construction and tell ya how to improve it.
As for the "recommended" length, you'll just have to either build you several length's and try it, or ask anyone up there who has one if you can spar with their axe for a bit. Only handling and practice can show you what length fits your fighting style.
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Post by Duke Fontayne on Jan 20, 2010 22:52:07 GMT -5
Just for reference, my axe is about 27" long. It has a core of 1/2" PVC which was probably inbetween 24 and 25 inches in length. The blade face is about 10" long. It weighs about 15.3 oz. Rowan helped me with its construction. The head is multiple strips of blue foam then a strip of open cell with a long strip of blue that runs over the top and down the face. I added two face sheets of blue foam to the sides of the head for support (like a sandwich), a piece of vinyl from the haft to the head to prevent foam tear away, and duct taped it rather well on the non striking areas.
Personally I feel that the weapon adds some versatility, but in a line fight it isnt quite long enough. It seems more pacticle for one on one or skirmish type battles. Though adding more length and making it easy to use one handed may be difficult. This is just from my point of view and fighting style. I've seen some pictures of Dag fighters wielding axes of all different lengths and some dual weilding them. Jari from the national boards comes to mind. And I'm pretty sure there is a stabby tip on an axe featured in the Wreckreation Nation: Dagorhir video.
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Post by stubbie on Jan 21, 2010 8:38:11 GMT -5
True, the WR axe was the earlier discussed design....picture a halbred head with only ~28" of handle. Jari is about the #1 source of axe information...I may be wrong but that's what my trolling has informed me as to how it is lol. He is the Axe in hyenacart.com/axeandarrow/ Axe and Arrow.
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Post by shalbaal on Jan 21, 2010 9:36:47 GMT -5
Just for reference, my axe is about 27" long. It has a core of 1/2" PVC which was probably inbetween 24 and 25 inches in length. The blade face is about 10" long. Good info thanks for sharing how your axe was built. I'll probably try to make mine a bit longer but this gives me a good starting point.
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Post by Furyun on Jan 21, 2010 10:49:46 GMT -5
Build the stabby on the core first. this will do a few things 1. you can be sure the stabby is going to be right, and well secured 2. when you build the axe arround it the stabby can be as close to the actual tip of the axe as you can make. avoiding stubby's mentioned prblem.
do yourself a favor and dont make the axe blade more than 8in wide total from blade edge to back of the haft. Sux to see someone's wide blade tip over when you hit someone, then break from stress of hits or pulls.
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Post by shalbaal on Jan 21, 2010 13:19:35 GMT -5
Ok, work has been slow so here's my idea: The leather strip (9-10oz) is going to go under about 2" of the 3 layer section below the axe head. This means I'll be shaping the head of the axe before wrapping the core. I could also wrap a light piece of leather between the two "sandwiched" pieces of blue foam on the head construction for support, Im not sure if it needs it though. Total length going by this is ~36 to 38 inches. By putting the 4" section of 3 layers under the axe head it should make it nice and safe in case I haft anyone with the top 14" or so of the axe. I left a 1.5" section of exposed core to build the stab-tip on. I figure the one piece of blue that extends through the back-side of the axe head can be used to secure circle discs of open-cell/nerf football. My first attempt will not have the stab tip so it'll be a bit shorter overall length. Anything you guys see that I should change? Any opinions/advice welcome!
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Post by stubbie on Jan 21, 2010 22:38:42 GMT -5
Listen to Fury for he is wise. Building stabby first would have prevented my problem...
Also leaving your OC exposed like that will cause it to break down faster / tear more easily. If you were to encase it between 2 layers of blue, it would help it's life span.
And why the bevel? Looks fairly steep, just saying it may cause some "glancing" shots.
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Post by shalbaal on Jan 22, 2010 11:45:59 GMT -5
Ok, I edited the design in the above picture.
I sandwiched the open cell between two layers of blue as Stubbie suggested. I also shortened the overall width of the axe blade so the entire blade + core + haft = 8" per Fury's recommendation.
I put the bevel in the blade to give axe more control and to disperse the force of the hit better through the head. I probably won't bevel quite that much off.
The stabby tip is now built into the axe head. The first two blue layers that make up the majority of the axe head will make up the "front." The single layer of blue that extends all the way through the entire haft back will make up the "back." The first wrapped around "taco" layer will make up both of the sides.
Encased in this 1" wide by 0.5" on each side layer of blue will be two blue caps with 1.5" of open cell on top of it. That whole thing will then be capped with a 1" to 1.5" layer piece of open cell.
The total size of the stabbing tip would be around 3"W x 3"L x 3.5"H.
Does this look like it would be a good design? Any changes/suggestions?
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