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Post by darken on Jan 26, 2010 0:52:47 GMT -5
After this past Sundays practice I have rather severe bruising on the back of my left leg, the front and knee of my right leg, and my elbow.
Now I have played dag several times (between 8-12 practices) in the past and have been hit by big weapons (IE Hammer's... hammer) and by big individuals or those who just hit hard. I never have bruised (Well Hammer's hammer make a nice red-mark for a while, but nothing black and blue) . So I am just asking that we double check something. I don't normally bruise at all so I am kinda concerned.
I will try to be there at next practice for sure. But I don't know if I will play.
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Rowan
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Only by death of sword will I get into heaven!
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Post by Rowan on Jan 26, 2010 10:57:21 GMT -5
There are also alot of other factors that can cause the bruising. If you know what weapon you think did the bruises, send me a PM. If you are just having post fighters practice bruises show up... I'll say: Welcome to Dagorhir.
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Post by darken on Jan 26, 2010 12:14:59 GMT -5
I am curious as to what you think caused these bruises if its not the weapons? We are fighting on mats, aren't allowed to do most shield bashes/rushes, and don't have enough room to pull of really crazy crap. I get that weapons need to be broken in, certain strikes can cause bruises more than others, and that Stuff happens. But, I am just requesting rules be followed.
I am curious if anyone else had bruises due to Sunday's practice.
And I will PM you whose weapon I think caused it.
PS Rowan: I was at Thursday's practice and felt just fine and had no bruises. You saying "Welcome to Dag" is insulting. If this continues I will be saying "Goodbye to Dag". I can't be hobbling around for the rest of my life. This isn't MMA.
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Beard
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Post by Beard on Jan 26, 2010 12:52:26 GMT -5
brusises can be caused any number of things on the field even on mats. You can get a bruise from running. because brusies are just the blood collecting on different parts of your body. Basicly your injuring the soft tissue or the bone.
trust me i blew out my new while running and it was ugly and brusied for a good couple of weeks. It could have been the way you moved or you just took a knee wrong even on those mats.
Finally, "Welcome to Dagorhir" is actually said alot through by a good majority of dag players. Its not a insult at all and even if your a vet you still hear it. Its short and sweet to say " hey its all happened to us" or "it happens". So you will be hearing that term alot not just by Rowan.
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Post by darken on Jan 26, 2010 14:29:19 GMT -5
Fair enough. And thanks for explaining the "Welcome to Dag".
However, My bruises only are where I am hit. So its not like these bruises spring up from random stuff. Its definitely from someones weapon.
My knee is bruised in two separate spots. and not on where my knee would hit the mat. My right leg is bruised on the shin. Not somewhere that you would normally bruise from muscle exertion or falling wrong. My left leg is bruised on the back. No way that could come from something non weapon related. And my elbow is bruised. And I remember getting hit in the elbow and thinking "*#@$ that hurt".
My left side, except for the back of the leg, is fine. So I can't see how this is just some random bruising.
I am not asking for anything special, I just want rules to be followed. If my leg is bruised like this, then a shot to the face, even accidental, would be nasty.
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Post by SilverFox on Jan 26, 2010 15:42:01 GMT -5
Okay, don't take this insulting...but you're playing in a "combat" sport/game/whatever. There is shield bashing, shield kicking, and we're hitting each other with PVC/graphite...whether it's covered in foam or not, it can still cause bruising. Bruises are part of the game, just like in any sport. Have you ever played football? Did you ever get bruises UNDER your padding? It happens, it's perfectly natural. Also, not having met you, I'm not making a judgement call, just a blanket statement...but if a few bruises bothers you, what happens when you're running across the field, slip and tear an ACL (happened to me)? If bruises are a major concern, perhaps this isn't the sport for you, just saying.
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Post by Duke Fontayne on Jan 26, 2010 15:57:21 GMT -5
Safety is the number one rule of the game. Darken's request is completely valid. We usually just check new weapons or set aside clearly identified broken/non-conforming weapons. But weapons develop soft spots over time or they are set aside for a few months and then brought back into action without being re-checked. It would not be uncalled for to check them every now and then.
Don't be afraid to ask someone to check their weapon in-between battles if you think it is striking too hard. The guy might call you a weenie (if he is a d-bag), but if he or she ends up hurting someone the next round, you should both feel bad for not taking 30 seconds to ensure the weapon is safe.
This being said, we all like to get down to the business of beating each other as quickly as possible, but during water breaks over the next couple weeks I think it would be reasonable to double check everyone's gear. This will also ensure that everyone is ready for some grand melee's when spring arrives in full.
Hitting hard is part of the game. The rules say that the weapons should not bruise, but everyone's body responds to varying degrees of blunt trauma differently. And we are hitting each other with padded rigid objects. If someone is weilding a big red sword and goes for a shield break strike, and the shield bearer tries to move their shield out of the way only to catch the strike in the arm or leg then I fully expect there to be some 'ow' factor and potential bruising. The same thing goes with haft hits, I know I have accidentally thumped a few people with my club haft and I'm sure it did not feel good (sorry). There are many other live action role playing games out there that work on a more tap based or lighter weapon system. Dagorhir is much closer to actual battle in the respect of force utilized. This is the reason for the 'Welcome to Dagorhir' comment. The game can be very brutal within the safety rules, and that is why some people love it so much and others decide it is not for them.
As one who seems to attract foam weapons of all forms to my face, I will second the motion for a safety inspection of the gear used in the Northern Steppes. Heck we may even find out that Militis' club has been juicing for the last few years and that is why he does so well with it. I will submit the Duke's arsenal for inspection over the next few practices if I can find some veterans and backs willing to help out. I would also suggest that the leadership within the Steppes do some random checks throughout the year to make sure everyone is being responsible with the gear they are fielding.
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Post by Syr Kaigar Vegulfr Lodbroksonr on Jan 26, 2010 18:16:55 GMT -5
I agree with Duke on this one. While I do also agree with Tucker, and the fact that Dagorhir IS a full-combat sport and these sorts of things fo happen from time to time, we have to remember that the holy trifecta of Dagorhir is Safety, Playability, then Realism. As far as the bruising issue, we have to keep in mind that our weapons are to be built as safe as possible, specifically to avoid bruising, somrthing that's mentioned in the MOA.
Duke nailed it with his comment about sweet spots. All weapons get them, and they suck when you get hit on one. Along with that, fresh weapons kinda suck too, lol. But that's something that is fixed with time.
I agree with the idea of doing more frequesnt checks, and as such, I'll be more than willing to check weapons at any practice I'm at. Just let me know at some point, and I'll run the full spec and hit test for ya.
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Post by Ska'ar Wulfsiger on Jan 26, 2010 20:51:26 GMT -5
After taking an elbow shot that felt like core, I pulled one of Daroth's weapons aside with Rowan and found that it had indeed developed a few weak points where core was pushing through. A lot of weapons that are being used have been through an entire season of warfare, and we hit a lot harder in NS than a lot of other realms, so any small flaw in a weapon can easily break down much faster here. A lot of our loaner gear has been breaking recently. I'm all for taking about 20-30 minutes out of our regular practice schedule to check weapons, it is probably a good idea as much of the gear in our realm hasn't been to an event to be tested since pre-Ragnarok.
That being said, there are multiple possible valid ways to get bruised that are just part of the sport. Hafts of clubs, reds, and so on have only courtesy padding. Also the flat sides of swords are essentially only covered with a courtesy thickness. It's called "courtesy" because occasionally a weapon doesn't strike someone in the intended manner with the intended legal striking surface; it's a courtesy to pad these non-striking areas so that people aren't getting hit with full out core. These non-striking areas can often cause bruising. Without the padding, they could cause far more severe injury. If you took a lot of flat or haft shots, that could explain bruising, and that just means people need to focus on being more precise with hitting with the striking edges and not the hafts/flats.
One other possible explanation for bruising is that we did have the Lord of Chaos (Thanix) out there with a red, and he hits a lot harder than a lot of fighters; I moved my shield but forgot to pull my leg and I got a nice big nasty bruise on my thigh from it. It is all part of the game. Sometimes a bruise is indeed just a bruise. We probably should do a good checking though. I don't want to see any broken bones or any more broken cores in the off-season when they can be easily prevented with a few simple tests.
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Post by darken on Jan 27, 2010 0:00:17 GMT -5
Thanks all for your responses.
--For those of you who are simply "dag is a physical sport..."
I understand. And as with all physical sports rules are in place to keep it both safe and fun. I am not a "weenie" who gets hit and cries to mommy. I took all my hits and didn't complain. I just would like my Dag life to not interfere with my regular life.
--For those of you who are willing to have your weapons checked.
That is all I am asking. Its better to catch these things now and be able to fix them. Then to go to Rag or some other event and have to make repairs.
--To all,
I am not asking for anything major. I would just like a simple weapon check every so often. Even a hit test would find most problems and would only take a few minutes. Out of the whole 4-5 hours we practiced Sunday this would seem insignificant.
I have said my peace. And PMed Rowan about what I believe was the offending weapon. If nothing comes of it... that is ok. I just wanted to make a request.
I hope to be out there Thursday sometime. Depends if I get out of tutoring at a decent time. No fighting though just watching. If not Thursday I will be there Sunday. I like dag. And I want to play. But at this rate, I may not play until I get some garb with a bit of padding.
If you guys wish this topic can end now. I have said my peace and have taken all of your advice and comments into consideration.
--Regarding Thanix's double red.
That sucker caught me in the wrist and shot my weapon across the room. I have been icing my wrist and have it in a brace. However, I have no problem with his weapon. It was safe and fun to have on the field. I made the mistake of trying to counter it by taking his arm and I payed for it. Live and learn. However, his weapon (as bad as it hit) didn't leave a bruise nearly as bad as the ones on my legs.
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Post by Kam on Jan 27, 2010 23:29:32 GMT -5
If anyone needs a back for testing, I volunteer. ;D
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Ragnar the Inebriated
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Post by Ragnar the Inebriated on Jan 28, 2010 0:21:55 GMT -5
NO!!!!!
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Post by Furyun on Jan 29, 2010 22:54:44 GMT -5
Late but my $0.02
I am NOT saying the weapon didn't need fixed, but...
You have an iron deficiency that makes you bruise too easily. I only say this because I had a period of bruising early in the game. Being physical and taking vitamins keeps strikes from breaking blood vessels, as well as returning diffracted blood to the lymph system.
simply put, everyone has a time of increased bruising. just take some vitamins and keep at it. Not anything bad but go eat something high in iron and block for more.
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Post by Ska'ar Wulfsiger on Jan 30, 2010 12:19:45 GMT -5
Yes, lack of iron could also lead to bruising.
All that being said, we did a weapons test on every weapon that crossed through the door on Thursday. Pretty much everyone's personal gear passed. Only 3 of the loaner weapons passed (although 1 failed on green, and the battleaxe failed because it needs some courtesy on they pokey end which is never swung at anyone or anything anyway). I will say without much doubt that if someone was using those maroon covered bats, they probably would have bruised anyone all to hell, because they've really broken down a LOT over the winter.
I'll be continuing to randomly check personal gear that I know wasn't tested Thursday, as I am sure the other vets will as well. I think we can all stop speculating as to how or why someone might bruise, and stop arguing about whether or not it was someone's weapon or not, and just continue testing them. If the bruising continues, he will most certainly know it was something else. I think we can prolly lock this topic.
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Osric
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Post by Osric on Feb 2, 2010 13:01:14 GMT -5
and on the that note thank you wolf and others who did an inspection. I am closing/locking this thread
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